Ep. 16: Focus on Ethiopia, the world’s first country to ban non-EVs since 2024! Johannes Huber ex GIZ shares his expert view on local sustainable energy and EVs.

Welcome to the Smart Charge by RiDERgy podcast. This is Claudio Geyken, founder and CEO of RiDERgy. This is your show to learn about all things, energy management and smart charging innovation for electric vehicles and fleets.

Welcome to a new episode of the Smart Charge podcast. Today, we're going to Africa, to a country that is leading the way in electric vehicles. Ethiopia. Ethiopia is the first country in the world has banned ICs, so only electric vehicles can be imported into the country. And this since last year, January 2024. This is a bold move and filled with challenges where there is no master plan still that has been developed. It was announced just in 2023. We dive deep into all the aspects of the

energy system and the mobility systems and even before that, the economic system. Of the country, how it's developing to adjust as well to the needs of electric vehicles. With an an absolute expert in development economics. Johannes Huba, he brings in several years of experiences both in South Africa and Ethiopia. And explains to us um how the situation is and what challenges are being faced and how to tackle them. And especially shares with us. A few fun facts and a few interesting anecdotes from his personal life

there. So there's lots to learn about the country and one I'm already giving you before we start so that you get yourself a nice coffee. Arabica, the plant, the coffee plant was coming from Ethiopia. So let's dive deep into this topic of the bold move to electric vehicles from a country, none others like Ethiopia. Alright, um, hello Johannes, how are you today? Very good, very good. I'm happy to be here. Thanks a lot. How are you? Thanks. I'm also very good. Um, also, even though the

the podcast studio is a bit hot today, uh, but we'll, we'll manage. Maybe it gives a bit of an Ethiopian feeling too as this episode is all about Ethiopia. But uh before we dive into uh Ethiopia, uh, to have the listeners understand more about your background, can you uh explain yeah, what's your background, maybe where you grew up, and what you did so far? Sure, sure, um. So I, I'm originally from, uh, from Lake Constance, from the south of Germany, um, and I've, well, after, after

high school, I've been around a lot, um, focusing my studies, uh, on, on the African continent, um, even though my background is economics. Um, but always with a focus on, uh, development policy, um, development economics, um, and, and more recently in my master's degree, then I turned towards, uh, energy economics, um, but, well, the, the basics are, uh, in economics, that's what I did. And, um, through various internships or projects, um, uh, on the African continent, um, it all started with South Africa and then I

I got opportunities in Ethiopia. And I sort of changed my focus from the Southern African region to the East African region. Um, that's, that's basically, uh, in very short, um, how my last. You could say 10 years or so, looked like um. And, uh, and I'm, I'm currently though I, I currently live in Berlin again. um, I've, I've been in Berlin for about 1.5 years, um, and I, I work in the energy industry now, um, uh, for, for an association, the Association of Local Public Utilities

um, even though now of course my focus has changed a bit, uh, but my previous job, uh, was, was, was in Ethiopia and I, I, I used to live in Ethiopia and, um. Uh, I used to work for the German Development Corporation, uh, over there, um. Yeah, that's, that's quite a basic rundown basically of, of what the last 10 years or so looked like. And so one step back, how did you get passionate about development, economics? That, well, that started, I would say that started all

back in around 2012 when I went to South Africa for the first time, uh, and I did one of those classical voluntary services that, um, that a lot of Germans do when they're interested, uh, to, you know, do something else, not go straight to studying. Um, and I went to South Africa with the Wildbirds, uh, program, uh, which is financed by the government as well. Um, what's the program? The, the program is called Belt Wetts. It's from the, uh, um, uh, from, from the Ministry for

um, Economic Development, the German Ministry for Economic Development, um. And it's, it's a, it's a very basic, uh, or very, uh, broadly used, I would, I would rather say broadly used program by, by a lot of young, young Germans that, that are sort of interested to go abroad. Uh, the name is Velvets. Exactly. And that's how I got interested. That's basically what led to my bachelor's degree in in economics and development, um, and, and I sort of just stayed in the field I would say yeah

Got it. But, but so you, you found this program after something, something drove you to that program in the first place, right? To do the voluntary work in South Africa. Was there anything that triggered that that you wanted to go? Um, I wanted to. I wanted to go and see something else, I think. And I, I started to look for for different things. And um I, I did go abroad during, during high school as well. I went to the US for, for an exchange for 6

months. I, I did a small exchange to Egypt even. Uh, I think it was grade 10 or 11. So I, I did get interested in, in, in you sort of going elsewhere um before. And then I basically just looked for something, um, for something to do after high school for a year before going, before going to university. Understand. And so after South Africa, you said you went to Ethiopia. There was, right, I did a couple of things in South Africa during my bachelor's, which was mostly

a semester abroad, uh. 1 or 2 internships. And then I, I applied with GSZ and the German Development Corporation. Exactly. And, um, and there was a position in Ethiopia, which was quite matching to my studies at the time, uh, which was in organizational development. Um, sort of, I, well, I have to say my, my studies were in economics, but, uh, the faculty or the program also focused on institutions. Um, uh, so, Uh, that, that was quite fitting because, because the, the, the internship that I then

got at GIZ was, was, um, on organizational development. So the topics were quite matching and, and that's why I got that one in Ethiopia, I would say. OK, and what was the mission about in Ethiopia? What did you have to do? Ethiopia was um. Uh, so GRZ is organized in projects abroad and in, in a lot of countries, GRZ has, um, uh, country offices. Um, Ethiopia is a bit more special because Ethiopia, you sort of can compare with, uh, is, is sort of the Brussels of

the African continent. Oh is it? It's a funny, uh, I didn't know that. OK. Sort of, I mean, you have the African Union in Ethiopia, so the headquarter of the exactly African Union is in, uh, in Addis Ababa. The, the commission of the African Union is in Addis Ababa. So GIZ not only has a country office. But also a um a liaison office to the African Union. And that's as well a project office, um, and that's where I used to work. And the project was basically

on, on organizational development, meaning, uh, trying to, you know, uh, uh implement different projects to help the commission uh to do their work better, more efficient. That's uh in easy terms, you know. Did you know anything about Ethiopia before going there or what, what were your first impressions? To be very honest, not a single thing. Not a single thing. I, um, I, I, I thought to myself when I got the job, oh wow, I'm going to Ethiopia, I guess. I just started to research a little

bit, but I had no idea, uh, what to expect. And, um, I, in my, in my young mind, I would say. I sort of, um, I sort of thought it's gonna be a bit similar to what I saw in South Africa, so I might be able to use some experiences, um, um, from South Africa and Ethiopia. Uh, I have to say. Nothing whatsoever. Complete different. Complete different world, complete different culture. Um, I, I just applied and uh I applied out of the blue and I went

into cold water, you can say. For, for, for my personal experience, yeah. And what do you remember were the first things that really um yeah, shocked you or or or or impressed you or were surprising to you? Um, I remember my, the day of my arrival quite, quite vividly. It was in the middle of the night in Ethiopia. Usually the flights, the international flights that come into Ethiopia always land around midnight. Um, uh, or they land when it's still dark and you basically have to, uh

take a taxi to your location. Um, of course, I arrived, there was a taxi driver who was supposed to pick me up with very little English. Um, and drove me to some guest house. And I remember that, you know, you got there from, from, from Germany. I got there from Germany. I I went into the guest house and Uh, that there was no electricity and the water in the beginning because at that moment, um, it was simply out, you know, a, a thing. There was a

a, a local blackout, you know, maybe brownout, maybe even you, you, well, you, you never knew exactly what the problem was. It might only have been the house. It might have been a couple of houses around. Um, I also have to say in the, in, in the last couple of years, it has become a lot more stable. Um, but it was a daily thing when I used to live there. It was back in which I lived in Ethiopia. I, I arrived for the first time in

2018 and I left in 2021. Yeah, that was the time frame. Um, so, of course, a completely new world, and then I didn't know the language. I didn't know anything. I didn't really have a You know, way to get around and uh it, it was sort of those first couple of days to, to sort of try and, you know, go outside and just to be around and try to get a couple of basic things, you know, food to cook with and Yeah, those uh just a

very different world and try to do the basics that you also do in Germany, just in a very different world. Got it. And in which ways uh were Ethiopia, was Ethiopia different to um to South Africa, uh based on your experience? Um. Well, first of all, South Africa has uh quite a lot of basics that just work that are it it's, it's a bit more developed, um, you, you, you do have electricity and water supply that, that usually works, um, uh, and it's. I mean, that's

that's one thing that you, that you do realize, but, uh, culturally, it's a huge difference. Um, the Ethiopian culture is, is, is extremely different from, from, of course, the South African culture. Um, And it's a very, uh, it's a very distinct and interesting one that, uh, I would say is less comparable to countries like South Africa or Kenya or Tanzania, which um I see more similarities to South Africa compared to the Ethiopian culture. Yeah. Can you give one example just to make it a bit more

tangible? Um, In, in, in my experience, in my, uh, in, in how I view it, Ethiopians are quite respectful, like extremely respectful, and they also keep a distance, and that's what I felt, uh, in, in, in daily life a lot. Um, I, I, I could feel that there is definitely interest towards, you know, foreigners, um. Uh, but, but sort of the, well, yeah, sort of the, the, the respect was there, not to sort of go in your way, into your space. That, that wasn't a thing

at all. Um, so you could walk around, of course, of course, you were always a person of interest, um, because you were from somewhere else, obviously, um, but. It was, it was not at all that. Uh, yeah, anyone would go in your way. It was rather very helpful when you ask people, but no one would, for example, ask you or little people would ask you, uh, if, if, if you needed any help. So that, that was sort of the main difference that I experienced throughout my

whole time. Interesting. Yeah. And, um, before we move to the, the, the, the, the big topic of today as well, uh, uh, related to, to immobility and energy and deep dive into that as well. Just, uh, first on the GIZ again a bit more on what you did there. What was the main outcome of your three years? What were the interesting projects that you did that you want to highlight? Well, but we, we, I was working on one project. Every project is, uh, usually, of course

there's always, uh, uh, differences in, in project to project, but usually a project is around 3 to 4 years. And, um, my time there was pretty much 3 years. So I was, I was there for 1 project phase and we, um, The, the project we implemented was on uh on human resources and and finances. And my focus was on, on financial development. Um, and, and that basically included, uh, working with, um, the finance department on, uh, on, on how to, you know, on how to increase

the budgeting process. Um, so at the end of the, the project phase, um, we, we had developed a way on, on how to, on how to, uh, in the future, um, do a better job on, on, uh, the budgeting process. Um, sort of, you can think of a manual, you know, uh, that, that sort of is what was there to try and harmonize the whole process, uh, across the commission of the African Union. OK. Yeah, that was, that was pretty much the project. Yeah. Yeah. And

and so that most listeners might not know so much about Ethiopia and in general, maybe you can give some. Uh, based on what you know, the core indicators of the country so that people get a grasp and feel about which, which size of country and, and, and so on we're, we're talking about. Um, so Ethiopia, we, to my knowledge, I don't know the specific numbers, but to my knowledge we have around 120 million people in the country. So much larger than Germany, large, exactly the, the

the size of the country is also larger. Um, it's, I would say about 2 times, maybe 2.5 times of Germany, um, but, uh, it's, it's also organized in a federal way. So you have federal states like in Germany, um, and you have a federal government like in Germany as well. So uh you have the you have the regional governments and the federal government um. Uh, the regional governments and the regional states are quite strong in, uh, in like how they do things and they, for example

they have their own police, uh, on the local level and then they have the federal police. That's a similarity to Germany as well. Um. Uh, on top of that, Ethiopia is quite interesting when it comes to the climate. I always find, uh, you have mountains that go all the way up to about 5000 m. 5000. It's really, really high mountains, uh, and then you have, uh, Uh, a very low point, which is -150 m below sea level. 100 minus. Is that like the lowest point on

Earth or something? Not the lowest point on Earth, but if I'm not completely mistaken, it is or might be one of the lowest points on the African continent. Wow, does it have a name? Uh, it's called the Danakil Depression, and it's, uh, it's in the, it's in the north, uh, east of the country, uh, very close to Eritrea to the Eritrean border. Um, so you can imagine with these differences in altitude, um, you, you get a lot of different kinds of climate. Um, the capital, for

example, is on 2300 m. Addis Ababa Addis Ababa, exactly. So it's quite a, quite a one of the five or so highest capitals of the world, uh, which also means you have like temperatures that don't go completely crazy, uh, in either way or in either direction. Um, so yeah, that, that's, that's quite interesting about Ethiopia. And economically speaking, I know it's the The origin of coffee is, is I think the coffee plant comes from Ethiopia, uh, but I think the coffee industry might not be as

strong as, uh, it was still, but maybe you can also elaborate on, on other economical strengths of the country. Sure, um, that's, that's a topic that's also already connected to our big topic today which is, which is interesting to go into it. Um, coffee is the main, uh, export, uh, the main thing that Ethiopia exports. It is, yeah, um. It's, uh, I mean, they, they, they have a couple of other agricultural products that they export. For example, for example, sesame is, uh, I think probably the

2nd, uh, biggest, um, uh, I think the 2nd biggest good, yeah. Um, but coffee is still the first, um, and then some other, some other agricultural products that they also export, um. There is not a big. Other branch or or sector of production that, that uh Ethiopia exports. Um, a little bit of flowers as well. Um, but Kenya is doing, I think a bigger part, but Ethiopia is also doing some parts of flower production and export. Um, but that is, that's sort of the economy. So

Um, people, a lot of people that don't live in cities, um, 120 million in the whole country, they're not all going to live in, in the capital or in other cities. They, they live in rural areas of the country. They do, they do subsistence, uh, subsistence farming. Um, so they, there, there's not a lot of, um, uh, sort of, uh, yeah, there's not a lot of production that, that you would use outside these villages. Um. So when it comes to the rural areas, also a lot

of poverty is still seen around as well, you can discuss the whole thing on poverty, how much, how poor are people that actually, you know, live in a village and uh can produce everything they need for themselves. Um, but of course with climate change and uh and, and, and all of that, um, the. The food that they are able to produce is also becoming less and less and less and then it's not enough anymore to feed everyone and then of course you definitely can talk about

poverty. And within the African continent is Ethiopia in the average, let's say of the poorest among the richest countries in the continent or. What do you know? I'm, I'm, it's not among the richest countries of the continent. Uh, I'm not sure whether you would call it extremely poor, uh, when you look at other African countries, um, but it's probably poor to middle somewhere compared to other countries on the continent, but the richest definitely not. All right. And talking energy then, what's the energy production in the

energy grid, um, data that you can share? Sure, so. Energy. In Ethiopia comes mainly from hydropower. Um, Ethiopia has built or is still in the process of finishing building the so-called great, not great, Grand Ethiopian Renaissance dam, uh, which is a huge, huge dam, um, on the, on the Nile, on the Blue Nile, exactly. Um, it's, it's the size of it, if you use it, apparently if you use it at full capacity, it can produce somewhere around 15 terawatt hours per year of electricity. And that's

enough to power the whole country. Ethiopia has, um, has a demand of around 12 to 13 terawatt hours per year, um, currently. So if you use the dam at full capacity, you would be able to produce all the electricity needed. Um, but of course right now the dam is not completely finished, uh, to my knowledge, and um it's operating, it's operational, but not all turbines. So I think you have a total of around 13. 14 turbines. Um, uh, the, the, the, the person I spoke to

uh, the interview that I had, um, you can also share that was. Um, I, I've had an interview with, uh, with, with, um, the World Resources Institute. And, um, and, uh, one of their experts on, uh, electrification of the, well, basically of the roads, um, or of cars and trucks and buses and so on, um. Uh, one of them, he, he shared a couple of things with me and gave me also an update. I, I had a very good conversation with him, um, and he told

me that, um, according to official data, 2 turbines are running. Um And um uh 2 turbines out of 13 or 14 um is of course not a lot. I found a couple of different um uh of different, um, well, sources online that said maybe it's already 5 or 6, but I'm not sure on, on how much production there is right now. Um. But Ethiopia does get most of its electricity from hydropower today. Most, that means that there's other sources too. There is a little bit of

wind and a little bit of old oil power plants. Yeah, but, uh, hydropower is supposed to be the big thing for the future. Also, OK. And do they have solar at all? Um, not much. Um, that might be part of the strategy to bring in more solar, um, especially also in the city. Um, since, well, you know, since, uh, when we talk about, uh, electric vehicles, it would be great to have solar on people's houses to charge them, um, but, uh, currently not, not something significant

for them. And, and gas and oil resources and coal, do they have any in this, in the, in the country is like. Their own resource, um, I'm not completely sure on, on how many gas or oil resources they have, but, um, since, well, since they're focusing on hydropower, I would believe it's probably not enough, not a lot, because they're trying to become more independent with their general energy production. And that's where they're they're turning to what they have in the country, which would be hydropower. Yeah

So now one of the exciting or or very maybe surprising facts that that's also one of the key reasons we're talking in this podcast about Ethiopia is in in making a deep dive is, is the fact that it's been the first country in the world that has banned. And the sale of of new um ICEs and, and so therefore choosing EVs before any other country even before Norway who who which is probably the the the the one that people have in mind when they think about

EV leadership. Um, yeah, how, how was your experience, uh, in, in Ethiopia in terms of mobility? Let's talk first in general about mobility and then, and then we can switch gears and see how immobility is. Than lived and and and viable in the country and what are the hurdles to make it successful. So mobility in general, what was your personal experience and also what have you observed how people uh how, how does it, for example differ from from a country like Germany? Sure, um, so mobility

is, is organized public transport, let's start with that is organized, um. Around, uh, uh, minibuses. Uh, small Toyota minibuses, uh, that can seat around 15 people. Um, that, that's something very typical you find in a lot of African countries. Um, uh, but they also have quite a large fleet of buses, which is then, uh, which is something then, um, uh, organized by, by the city of Addis Ababa. Um. And then on top of that, when it comes to public transport, they have a sort of, uh

you, you can call it uh Well, uh, yeah, city, city line, they call it the light rail, um, uh, comparable to, I don't know, in Berlin, the S-Bahn, not really tram, something more like S-Bahn, uh, uh, well, an underground, but it's above something like that. Um, and it was built by, uh, Chinese investors, um. I'm not sure when, let's say 10 years ago, 8 years ago, or something like that. It was already around and operational when I came. Um. And, uh, and that was supposed to

sort of also bring the city forward on, on public transport, um, because the city, of course, uh, the, the people come into the city all the time. So it grows when it comes to population, but the infrastructure of the city sort of lagged behind. Uh, they're, they're investing a lot currently to, to actually meet the demand that the city has. Um. But that's why there's also not really official numbers, even though when you Google it when you go on Wikipedia, I'm sure they are, they say

numbers around 3 to 4 million, but I would say it's, it's, it's a much further up, um, because people enter the city all the time every day. Yeah. So much bigger than Berlin. I would say so in terms of the population, yes. Yeah, yeah. Um, so that's one part, public transport, privately, um, of course, uh, you, you, there is a small private cars that, um, a lot of, uh, you, you see a lot of these, uh, cars that look like uh Toyota Yaris. Um, uh, it's

called Toyota Vitz. It's a very popular car. Uh, in, in Ethiopia, easy to import, easy to get, easy to get spare parts for. So that's a very popular car. Um, and they, they also have something like Uber, they call it Ride, um, and it works pretty much the same. You have an app. It's a company called Ride It's a company called Ride, exactly. Um, it's, it was. Started by, um, as far as it's, it's, it's a, it was a startup a couple of years ago and

uh very successful. And, um, uh, it's, it, as far as I know, they started and they probably still are an all women company. Interesting. Um, so quite a, quite an interesting, uh, super successful company nowadays. Um, so that's also, uh, that, that also adds to, to how you get around in the city. And then of course, um, in the rest of the country, uh, so I would say there's a big gap between Addis Ababa as a city um and the rest of the country where, yes

you do have um transport that that that goes from cities to cities, uh, uh, through the countryside, but Ethiopia focused also a lot on building small airfields. Um, so they can basically offer their population to get from, uh, to get to all the different places in the country by plane. It's quite unique, I guess, and at least I, I didn't hear that before. And, and is it cheap as well planes usually relatively.

Uh, there's two different prices. There's a price for Ethiopians and then there's a price for internationals. Um, I'm, I'm saying this because there is a A price for people that have the Ethiopian citizenship or that have, uh, that have, uh, um, that, that are basically allowed to live there long term, but then tourists pay a higher price. Still, that must be subsidized somehow or heavily, heavily. Yeah. I mean, you pay a flight this might be as cheap as Ryanair in Europe, which is very cheap for

the African continent because flights usually are not very cheap. Um, and then still, it's a big privilege to be able to fly. Uh, in Ethiopia, usually the, the very poor would take a bus still, yes, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and, and, uh, is there like a train, um, system, uh, intercity? No, no. There is one train that goes from Addis Ababa to Djibouti. Um, takes, well, it really depends. It takes 12 hours, 14 hours, 15, depends. Uh, it depends how the ride goes, I guess, but that's

quite a comfortable one. It was built by the, by Chinese investors as well. So the Chinese are very big in investing in, in Ethiopia. Different big infrastructure projects. Yeah. Interesting. So the roads, I imagine as well have been like in many other countries, the Chinese have built roads as well. They've renewed some of the roads. Chinese investors, uh, as well as Ethiopian investors, um, so they, they usually share it, um. Uh, some of the roads are in great condition. Some of the roads are in tough

conditions as well. And there was the big road that Ethiopia depends on between um Addis Ababa and Djibouti. So the country, uh, when, when you, the imports of Ethiopia basically all come through the port of Djibouti, because they don't have access to sea. They don't have access to sea exactly. So the, the only port that they have access to or sort of that they are using. Um, uh, is the port of Djibouti. Um, so all the trucks that come with the containers have to take a

certain route. Um, and that, and that road is of course heavily used and therefore, you know, torn down, not, not well maintained. I know that that's the opposite. It's the opposite because there are so many trucks every day, uh, even though you build, you would renew the road, it wouldn't take long for it to, to be torn down again. And in terms of private ownership of passenger cars given also the economic situation of the country, I imagine it's it's a very small minority that owns a

car. I would say so yeah um of course again big gap between Addis Ababa and uh other regional bigger cities uh compared to the countryside, um. But yes, it's definitely, uh, I don't know what the numbers, for example, are for Germany. I don't know how many in Germany we have about 50 million cars. 50 million. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's not one ratio of 1 to 1 of the population, but still it's, it's quite significant in, in the world, uh, in the wheelchair. I don't know

the ratio in Ethiopia, but I would, I would be surprised if it would be anywhere close to that. Yeah. Yeah. And so moving now to immobility. I guess that's also the reason one would be surprised. How, how are they coping now with the switch to e-mobility in your knowledge? So based on the conversations you have had, also the experience you've had, um, how does it work in practice? Uh, I imagine, so from my experience you have lots of secondhand vehicles usually being, um, bought in Africa

How, how is such a band now of ICE lived in practice and, and what challenges occur and then also we will move to how are they, how they solving these challenges, yeah. Um, Yes, so It's quite a, it was quite a drastic move, of course, to say, you know what, January 2024. We, we completely banned the import. Maybe you also know, can you know the background of the move? The background, there is a lot of reasons, but basically the big thing that I already mentioned before

is we want to be independent because Uh, with internal combustion engines, what do you need is fuel. Ethiopia doesn't have fuel. They have to import the fuel, which needs a lot of dollars to do so, which they also don't have. So they're trying to become more independent when it comes to energy as well as use their precious dollar resources, uh, reserves for, uh, other things that they really need it for, um. And of course electrification is then one strategy to get there one day. Um, now

the implementation of that strategy is quite drastic compared to, you know, what, what do we discuss in Germany, you know, let's, uh, let's try to sort of slowly, slowly phase out uh 2035, 2035 exactly. Um, in Ethiopia, it was January 2024, and I think they announced it a year before, something like that. Quite drastic. And an import ban in Ethiopia basically means a ban because cars are only imported. So there's, uh, there's only production. There's, there's, there's production. I think there might be a very small

part of the production in Ethiopia, but most cars. Um, are, are imported. Uh, so is it, uh, then only related to the import or is it also related to the production in Ethiopia, the ban of I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure about can fact check that later have to fact check that, um, but, uh, import ban is, is already, I mean, already the bulk of the exactly the bulk of it, yeah, um. So, well, yes. So, so those are sort of the reasons behind

it, um, behind, behind the whole, the whole move. They had, um, there was another directive a couple of years earlier that banned the import of, uh, of cars that were older than 5 years. I would have to fact check that as well, but something like that. So they tried to only get in newer cars, uh, but, but still, uh, ICE cars. Um, and then they, they did a very drastic move, um, towards, towards. Are we talking cars only or also uh other types of vehicles, other

types of vehicles. They say the, uh, internal combustion engine as a whole, as a whole. So meaning buses, mini buses, uh, which is, of course, I, I can imagine how much that will impact, uh, for example, taxi drivers, not the ones that we talked about the ride project. Um, because they would, they would get their cars, um, uh, for their drivers. Um, but the, the traditional taxi drivers that, um, you know, they, they, they don't even earn enough money to fill up a full tank. Uh

and then let alone buying a whole new car is gonna be very difficult. And so let's talk all the challenges so that we have a nice mountain to climb and then maybe we'll find some, some, uh, yeah, some, uh, some rope or other, other means to, to, to climb it better. Uh, so, so what other challenges do you see? Due to that. I would say that. Um, the challenges, well, you, you have the typical challenges that you have with any EV. They, they don't go as

far as, as the ICE engine cars, um, which is a bit of a problem for, for going, for going between cities in Ethiopia because the distances are very far, um, and you simply don't have charging stations in between. There are currently there are 2 public charging stations in Addis Ababa. Which is the moment we're speaking right now, the moment we are speaking, two public charging stations, um, which is, which is crazy when you think about it. So yeah, people, people, uh, charge their cars at home

Um, um, normal sockets or like wall boxes, yeah. They, you know, yeah, they do implement wall boxes, um. I think they are running, they're running a business models now where they sell cars with wall boxes. So people can, can, can charge better at home. Um. But then Well, public charging stations, uh, which are run by the telecom telecommunications provider of Ethiopia, Ethiop Telecom, there's 2 in the whole city, meaning also in the whole country. Really, uh, so the, the, the all the other cities don't have

anything when, when, when the, the highways is nothing. Nothing yet, no, because it came so drastic. So they have to implement all of that first and then that's why people are still, of course, people are still using their, uh, their, their normal cars, their ICE cars. Um, but then it's only slowly changing. It's, it's just that, uh, you know, whenever people can, I guess they are, uh, they are slowly changing towards, uh, cheaper, much cheaper, um, EV vehicles. I'm saying cheaper because, um, There is usually

a very high tax on importing cars in Ethiopia. How much is the tax? There are different kinds of taxes. For example, you have a 6% tax on anything you sell or buy, 6%. It's not only for cars, but anything in the country. The government wants to have 6% of that. So any car you buy, you already pay a 6% flat tax on that. Um, the tax for cars specifically. Um, differs on what kind of car it is, whether it is considered a luxury car or a

basic, a car for basic human needs, so to say. Um, so that's why I can't give you a specific figure on how much it is. I know that in the beginning of the import ban of EV, uh, of ICE vehicles, they, they, they, um, didn't have a tax specifically on EVs. Um, so EVs were tax free, basically, you had the other kinds of taxes, the 6%, for example, um, but then you didn't have a specific EV tax. Now they are reintroducing it slowly but surely. I

think currently they're standing at 15% on top of the 6%. Um, so you're standing at 21%, and then I think there are still some luxury taxes depending on what kind of vehicle you import. So, um, that's the one thing, but then on the other hand, the, um, used car market, um, you. You are definitely, you have to pay higher taxes for used cars, used ICE cars compared to the EV vehicles. That's why, of course, um, people, people can afford an EV vehicle much better, much easier

So, wait a second, are we talking that the used ICEs can be imported? No, not anymore, but you have a used local market for the local used. That's, that's more expensive if you buy a used ICE in the country right now than if you buy a, a new imported. In Germany, we don't know this sort of, we don't know taxes on used vehicles. That's why I was exactly, we don't have that. I can sell my vehicle to you without paying tax. Whereas in Ethiopia you have

you have to pay extra tax. Interesting. Exactly. And, and do you see, so there's like this probably one of the cheapest EVs in the world right now, this BYD Seagull. Yeah. Is there any trend that this is becoming super popular now in Ethiopia or which models are they able then to afford? I, um, I know that uh I'm not sure if it's this specific BYD model, but I know that uh they're, they have very good offers from the Chinese market, uh, in, in, in Ethiopia. And

so most cars, most EVs that you see on the road in Ethiopia are Chinese. And, and how would they, how, how are they thinking about solving the, the range and the issue and the lack of charge points, especially for these, I imagine if you live in a city and indeed you, you can charge at home, no problem. Nevertheless, for all these other use cases we're talking about trucks for logistics goods and the buses for transporting people. Um, and I understand we're not talking planes, right? We

the planes are planes, yeah, so the planes are not banned. Uh, so for the other two use cases, yeah. Um, There is not necessarily a great solution or a solution at all yet for all these problems. Uh, when it, when it comes to these directives, uh, it always sounds very strict in the beginning, but then you sort of have to find, find your way, uh, on, on making, you know, or, or trying to get everyone to adapt to it or trying to make it work for

everyone. So I know that you can get, for example, still special permissions. I would, let's, let's call it special permissions to import. Uh, vehicles when you have a very, very good reason. Uh, for example, you need it for, uh, for actually delivering things between cities, and you can really prove, I, I cannot do my job. I cannot do deliveries. With, with, with an electric truck, right? So, so there is, that's the one thing, there's still special permissions, but the other thing is also that right now

you still have a lot of used vehicles that are running, right? So people are just continuing to use that and they just pay a lot of a lot for, for, uh, fuel because the fuel prices are extremely high. Are, are the fuel prices like comparable to Germany or um, no, if you. If you compare the fuel price, I think we are at around 120 b. Currently, €1 is 160 bir. Um, but you have to look at the inflation. We, we are at, I think, I checked

today, we are at around 14% inflation in the country. When we just, just to, to illustrate it a little bit for you, uh, when I, when I lived there in 2020, 2019, 2020, 2021, um, the fuel price was at 20 bir for 1 L. Now we are at 120. Um And that that's a massive increase and also the, the inflation of the currency, we were at €1 to 50 bill and now we are at €1 to 160. So, um, and of course the, the salaries of

people don't increase that much, um, and people make around, you know, average people. Uh, which is the, the, the, the majority of, of, of the country makes around 3000, 4, 500, 5000 a month. When you have a degree, maybe 78, you know, something like that. Um, I would say that's sort of a middle class salary. And now imagine you have to pay 120 bill of that monthly salary for 1 L of fuel. That's insanely high. And why aren't there more charge points, so the telecom communications

company could, could create more charging stations. Do you know what's holding back the investment or the, the number of charge points? Um, I guess. I guess since it came so, so suddenly, the, the ban, um, I guess it is because, uh, well, because then the investments don't come in, uh, super quickly and, uh, and you also don't really have a great infrastructure of investors that, you know, that would be, I guess, interested in it, but those are just my assumptions. Um, I know that Ethiopia is

in a transformation or is transforming or trying to transform quite a lot of sectors. Um, and, and I guess that this is just one sector where they, where they need to get more financing, where they also might have discussions on, can we just give it to, uh, private companies because Ethio Telecom is a public-owned enterprise, um, and, and therefore controlled by the, by the government. Um, that might also be an issue. Um, yeah. And, and grid stability, you said is Has improved since you arrived in

the country? How, how can we imagine the improvements and where is it now, like, especially considering the risk of not having your vehicle charged if the power grid is not as stable. Um, So, so the, the main thing of course was how do we get this uh big chunk of electricity that is produced at the, at the dam, which is where, by the way, so maybe you can also, it's very close to the border of Sudan in the east of the country and Addis Ababa, for

example, is in pretty much in the middle, in the middle. Um, so there's quite a long stretch of, I don't know, 2000 kilometers, maybe 1500, something like that. But that's just a guess. Something like that of, of, uh, between those two points between the, the, between Addis Ababa and, and the, um, and the dam. And of course the dam is in the east, east, sorry, the dam is in the west. I'm sorry, I was going to dam is in the west Sudan, the border of Sudan

uh, the border to Sudan, not far from South Sudan as well. Yeah. Um, And, uh, and well, the question is how do you get the electricity from that point where it's not needed to all the points in the country where it is needed. So, um, so of course, the, the big networks were strengthened, they replaced them. I know that as well, there was a lot of Chinese investment, um, but also some other international donors, um, and, and, uh, the international community gave some money to, to

just increase grid stability. But that's, that doesn't apply to the, to the local level, so the substations, for example, in Addis Ababa, uh, are not as strong yet. So if while, while they, they sort of had, have gotten a lot better when it comes to just general electricity blackouts, um. Of course, if everyone is now going to charge their EVs, that's going to be a lot more difficult as well. Um, so yes, that's a big challenge, uh, not only producing the electricity but also getting it

to the point where it's needed. Also, my knowledge, Brazil, which is also having a high share of hydropower, right? Had like um huge issues related to droughts and therefore wanted to move more towards also other forms of energy so that they don't rely only on hydropower which as well considering global warming, having droughts become more frequent, is also not that smart to just rely on one source of power. I'm not sure if there is any, any um concerns that you have picked up in Ethiopia related

to that. Um, when it comes to the dam, the specific project, uh, not really. Uh, in that part of the country, you don't really have a problem with droughts. Um, they, they have, they have a lot of water, much more than is needed. And that's why it was, I guess, also chosen for a project like that. Um, and, uh, the Blue Nile carries a lot of water, um, that is all sourced in Ethiopia, um, and that, that region of Ethiopia, the, the west, um, is quite

green, quite lush, uh. So water scarcity is not too much a problem in that area, but it's in, it's a problem in other areas of the country, but not where they produce the hydropower. Well, that's good news for them then. I guess so, yeah. Even though you can always talk about how sustainable hydropower at the end of the day is, um, because in Ethiopia, you can, I, I looked at the satellite, uh, pictures of how big the, uh, the, the lake at the dam has gotten

over the years. It's huge because it's, it's, it is the biggest, uh, hydropower dam in the African or larger than your home town. Definitely Lake Constance. Definitely. Yeah. I'm not sure. Lake Constance, that would actually be a great comparison to look at that. Um, but I think it is larger than Lake Constance. Yeah, I think so.

Yeah. And What's potential do you see, so we are talking in this podcast a lot about smart charging, V2G, bi-directional charging, and, and especially applications in, in more, in, in countries where the system, energy system is a bit different. Maybe there's spot markets. Uh, and, and there's more fluctuating volatile renewables still, what applications and maybe also that relates to the fact of we didn't dive into the, the energy system as it's, uh, structured, is it, um, from a, from a liberalization standpoint you can elaborate on

on that and, and how you see or if you have even seen something already related to these topics, uh, and, and what the potential would you see? Um, I think I can just very quickly say that the potential is probably quite huge. Um, uh, but when it comes to all of the things that you just described, um, Uh, there, there is not much to be seen yet. So it's a very, uh, the liberalization is not there. So it's, um, it's, it's one national power company that

produces everything. Um, it produces, runs the grids and sells. Yeah, it's all a state-owned entopoly. It's a monopoly, exactly. Um. Even, yeah, I mean, they're, they're slowly moving in other sectors. They're moving into liberalization, for example, telecommunications. They have opened it up, so it's not only one company anymore. There's other companies investing. Um, that might be a model in the future for electricity as well. Um. Um, but that's not a thing right now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and it uh so just maybe for the listeners, one

idea, if we had like the solar power where we were just discussing earlier at the people's homes or in companies' businesses and combine that with battery storage or use the electric vehicles as storage, eventually for times where the grids is not, not that stable, it opens up. opportunities to, to, to save money as a whole as well for mobility, right? And um that's but I guess these, these things need to be developed just yet and then and it's not straightforward absolute start. No, absolutely, exactly. Um

the, the, the question is also is there, is there actually a market there right now because what I find interesting is that, uh, you know, you talk about this, this import ban of uh of, of ICE uh vehicles. Um, uh, but there's, there is, it's very, very difficult to, to sort of compare the situation that we have in Ethiopia to the situation that we have in Europe or Germany. So, um, it's, it's a very bold move, in my opinion, but, uh, of course, when I look

at my experience of the life in Addis, which was already, I've, I've more or less only experienced the, the capital city, um, but for me it's very, very difficult to imagine. Um, how people outside of others would be interested, you know, would go into something that futuristic, I would say. Because the question is, is there a need for it? As an entrepreneur, I can't help but think, oh man, that there must be a, a good opportunity as well for a private company to go in the

market now, given that there's such a strict regulation forcing everyone to move towards electric vehicles and such a, you said two charging stations in, in the whole city of in the whole country, it's like there's, it's just cries for a need for somebody to finance more charging stations and or maybe even a whole ecosystem around it offering you. Um, not only the charging stations, but the whole energy management, electric vehicles, etc. But yeah, so it would be also a very um uh go bold and, and

and uh a risky move to, to, yeah, to do that, I guess. Absolutely. Even though you might be surprised, um, Addis Ababa is, is quite a hub for, for uh startups and for, for entrepreneurship. Even though, uh, yeah, well, the, there is a lot of regulation around it. Um, people, they have, I, I've experienced that there's a lot of people who have a lot of energy when it comes to this. Um, so. Yeah, even though you've, you've got the challenges in the country that, that, that

you have, uh, the energy is definitely there, um, and I know that. As far as I know that like foreign investors come in and they are looking for Ethiopian partners to then to do investments in. The different infrastructures together. Um, so that's, that that does happen as much as possible, as much as is possible from, from a regulation point of view. Is that, by the way, something that GIZ does these type of projects or is that, yeah, so that could be also an interesting development project

for GIZ? Yeah, for sure. In, in the long run, that, that could be, that could be definitely interesting. Um, there is, uh, business support projects. Um, uh, there is, uh, yeah, all, all sorts of different support projects. But of course, GIZ is always a partner to the government. Um, and that's why it's, it's, it, it would always support, uh, the government strategy. That's, uh, the big, that's the big thing for, for GSZ I would say, yeah. Right, I think we covered a lot of ground. Um

we did. Thanks a lot for your time and for your insights, uh, Johannes. I hope, uh, listeners could enjoy our podcast with a nice Arabica coffee coming from, uh, from Ethiopia originally and that uh was one of the nice legacies of this country that definitely helped me as well to, to understand better. Um, and have more insights and gave me a bit more now, uh, impetus and energy to go and visit the country and, and, and maybe even start some business there. So thanks a lot

um, hopefully, yeah, the country will manage this transition and, and be rewarded for this bold move. Definitely, yeah, thanks a lot uh for inviting me also. Uh, this, this is always great to talk about these topics. Um, so very happy to be here. And if listeners want to connect with you or if you have a last message for them, yeah, feel free to share. Um, yeah, I mean, we, we can of course always connect, uh, I would be happy to continue the, the, the conversation on

these topics, um, because I find they're extremely, uh, important. But then the conversation is not a big one about, about these topics. So it's, it's always great to talk about it and to also continue to do so. Yeah. All right, have a great rest of the day, Johannes. Thanks a lot. The same to you. Thanks. And this was another episode of the Smart Charge podcast. What a fascinating. Background from Johannes who early on got fascinated about development, economics, and brings in interesting projects, experiences in South

Africa, but also very international background and then especially his deep knowledge about the country of Ethiopia. What a fascinating country, isn't it? I found it especially the altitude differences from -150 m to 5000 m, quite fascinating. As well as the modes of transport and the planes and how they're moving around with these planes as given the altitude differences and how they are moving to electric vehicles in such a bold move as the first country really trying, trying to make an impact for their. Population that cannot

afford these high fuel prices and so with this abundance of renewables, and it makes just total sense. Nevertheless, it's such a challenge to build charging infrastructure, to have a grid that is reliable and um having so few charging stations in, in like two big charging station spots in, in Addis Ababa in the whole country definitely opens up challenges and opportunities to make things better. Very curious to see how this develops over the years. And I hope you learn a ton about the country and the prospects

of immobility and smart charging, especially in B2G that will probably be part of the solution as things advance. I'm looking forward for you to tune in again in the next episode and don't forget to share it with somebody who might think this type of topics are interesting and to give us a 5 star rating. Bye.

Ep. 16: Focus on Ethiopia, the world’s first country to ban non-EVs since 2024! Johannes Huber ex GIZ shares his expert view on local sustainable energy and EVs.

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